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 HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS

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decado
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PostSubject: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:26 pm

This is an emotive topic for people some of us it seems.

I run our unit wargames club and have done for the last 4 years.

My job involves a lot of waiting about the guardroom so to keep myself busy (and awake more to the point) i take my models into work and sit and build and paint at work.

this means that every man and his dog knows what my hobby is. Now the one thing that never fails to surprise me is the number of people who come into the guardroom who ''used to play'' and when asked why they don't now the answer is always the same ''I didn't want to be a geek, and be singled out''.

these guys who by their own admission enjoyed playing only stopped because of the stigma attached to wargaming in the services.

This is also a part of the reason for this site to be up and running and getting all service clubs (and clubs that have servicemen in them), onto this site so we can not only support one another but also raise the profile of wargaming, and to dispell some of the myths surrounding it. My 2IC thought that initially we were all sitting around computer screens playing a computer game, another thought that we all dressed up and attacked each other with foam swords.

It wasn't until i represented Scotland at the 5 nations and won the individual best player that the unit realised that gaming is a serious hobby, now we have the backing of the regt hence the HFH tourney.

I've also been contacted by someone in bulford to help set up a club there which i will be doing shortly. Again raising the profile of the hobby.

The main moral of this is this.

If they don't know about you how can they support you.
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daveclark890

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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:48 pm

My name is Dave and Im a geek.

I play at the same club as Henry, it took a while for a small elite group of us to discover each other and then get the club up and running.

It is a massive up hill struggle because we are looked upon as being fat smelly old men who play kids games in darkened rooms around the world. This is most definately not ME. I am very open abouot being a geek... I also work with computers and have ginger hair so I am pretty used to having the p155 taken out of me and have developed a very thick skin but I know that I am 1 of very few how are willing to be open about our hobby.

Why do people fear saying what they enjoy doing?

I think this may be a good place for you all to air your fears about "coming out!"
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:55 pm

Totally agree it's the same as in the Navy, I often bring my minatures on deployment, and when the ship is alongside and I'm duty I often paint my minatures down the mess. I too am amazed at the amount of people that came away from the hobby because of being branded a geek. But yet the spend most of their time playing games on xbox or ps3. When I first started out they would have been branded geeks for spending the amount if time they do in consoles.
More often than not the reason they give for coming away from the hobby is that they found drink and girls more interesting. Yet they always ask about what I do with the minatures and how we play the game. I have on the odd occasion managed to get them to play a game and they do enjoy themselves.
I'm proud of my hobby and I don't mind being branded as a geek. It stops boredom and I enjoy it so I don't see any reason why I should stop.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:40 pm

My boss until this week thought I went to a club to play computer games until I corrected her. She seems really interested and wants me to do a brief on 40k!! I'm quite terrified about briefing people in the department about it because of the possible derision.

There was a wargaming club on my base but that seems to have died, I don't really know why, it died before I got here but I think its probably because of people not talking about it or advertising it due to the stigma....
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daveclark890

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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:31 am

Do us a favour and if/when you sort out your briefing stick it up on here so we can all see/add to it and use it as a bit of a pitch. Maybe we could sort of build a GEEK Brief!
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:49 am

Hello my name is Dave an I am an adult with a hobby.

I have never hidden the fact that I paint models and game with them. When I waas a singley I always had a painting table in my room and was even given a larger room by my SSM so that a few of us could set up a permanent table in there.

When my wife to be first came to my room, there was my painting table.

Now after 23+ years service I spend more time than ever telling people about my hobby and only a very few close mates would call me a geek and that is in jest just before I take te pi55 about their hobbies.

Oh, and looking like a bald psycho that is just about to bottle you helps.
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Towers

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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:24 am

daveclark890 wrote:
Do us a favour and if/when you sort out your briefing stick it up on here so we can all see/add to it and use it as a bit of a pitch. Maybe we could sort of build a GEEK Brief!

Will do.
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TimL



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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 pm

Hello, my name is Tim, and I'm a geek (on multiple levels - no, no, don't get too jealous),

For me, coming from (and still leaning towards) a role-playing background (rather than the traditional table-top/massed battle side), the potential for derision and comedic remarks is especially pertinent (cue calls of fake sympathy).

I really agree with getting 'the word' out there, and I've never been shy about telling people that I'm a 'gamer; it's my hobby and I'll cry enthusiastically and loudly about it if I want to. For the majority of my career, however, security has been paramount and advertising 'Forces involvement in the sport has been difficult, to say the least. I'm very pleased that this situation is changing, and hope that all of the 'Forces gaming associations will benefit from the increased ability to 'get the word out there'.

Highlighting the 'right person in the right place' thing; one of the first points of call when I arrived at one of my units was the Families' office, where I spotted numerous painted figures on the Families' Sergeant's windowsill. That, of course, led to an appropriate conversation and my attendance at the local Club. Great times.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:00 pm

Towers wrote:
My boss ... wants me to do a brief on 40k!! I'm quite terrified about briefing people in the department about it because of the possible derision.
If I may be so bold... but hopefully helpful... you may find some of the notes below useful for bulking-out your briefing.

1) Cover wargaming as generic whole before going on to 40k.
  • Periods: Ancient, Medieval, Napoleonic, English Civil War (ECW), American Civil War (ACW), Modern, (WWI, WWII, current) and Futuristic (i.e. 40k)...
  • There are many different 'gaming systems' which focus on different aspects of battle. In particular DBA/DBM focus on Ancients and Medieval respectively.
  • Playing area can vary dramatically, DBA taking up a 16" square area (very small figures representing large quantities of forces), to the larger battles portrayed, for example, in a particular James Bond film (where the 'baddie' had all sorts of smoke and light effects (not necessarily a good concept to portray - evil mastermind trying to take over the world....Smile )
2) One of the oldest most well-known and world-renowned 'war games' is Chess. Also, Sun Tzu (author of the Art of War, oft quoted by higher officers and still a relevant work and referred to at Sandhurst...). "Know thy enemy". A more modern equivalent is the board game Risk (of which there are now multiple flavours).

3) The Army/Military do 'wargaming' as part of battle planning, although it's not generally quite as detailed as we do (and takes significantly less time, but the principle applies.

4) Steer clear of the 'commerical' aspects of Games Workshop (i.e. targetting parents wallets through their teenage off-spring and the innumerable rules 'updates' to increase model purchases...), focus on the fact that their games promote:
  • Analytical skills (planning of the force to be deployed, as well as the tactics to be used, and analysis of the enemy forces).
  • Artistic skills, hand-eye co-ordination (model adaptation, painting, scenery building).
  • Relatively small British Company doing very well world-wide.
  • Pomotes strategic planning, and imagination.
  • Teaches 'loss' (occassionally...) to children who often these days are protected from it by their schools...
5) Types of battle (more pertinent to the historical type of game):
  • Re-fight: using known forces with known abilities - commanders using documented tactics, although possibly changing the tactics.
  • Re-enactment: just running through a battle, known forces, abilities, tactics and all used according to the records.
  • Theoretical: Two armies from different periods (e.g. late Romans vs early Egyptians) against each other.
6) Related activities:
  • Computer simulation and online gaming.
  • The Sealed Knot (live re-enactment of the English Civil War).
  • Board games (the already mentioned Chess and Risk, but there are thousands of alternatives out there).
Not being a WH afficionado, I'll leave it up to you to figure out how to fit the detail about 40k in ...

One thing that I will say, I've given a few 'off the cuff briefs' (lasting about 10-15 minutes) on the subject. Including most of the above has generally resulted in the audience exclaming at the end that 'they didn't realise that 'gaming was such a complex thing.

HTH

Tim


Last edited by TimL on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:09 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : To improve readability)
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:22 am

Excellent stuff there Tim. May I suggest that you could also mention other 'arenas' of wargaming i.e. naval, aerial & space. Games like Wings of War would likely be a big hit with RAF lads.


Last edited by Bren@Sultan on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:29 am

Bren@Sultan wrote:
...also mention other 'arenas' of wargaming i.e. naval, aerial & space. Games like Wings of War would likely be a big hit with RAF lads.
Bren,

Yes, a good point. My original post was a bit rushed...

Must not forget the Senior Service too. I've seen a few 1/300 scale Naval battles at conventions, and then there's the Full Thrust system, effectively Naval battles in space (probably not the only such system, but the one that I'm familiar with).

The things that all of the systems should have in common though are:
  • Tactics/Strategy (including reading, comprehending and interpreting rules) (Core/Key Skill: English Language).
  • Planning/Analysis (including in many cases, basic maths skills for determining 'army' composition) (Core/Key Skill: Mathematics).
  • Reacting to events/re-analysis.
If anyone can think of more, do add to the list.

I mention the link to Core/Key Skills because they can sometimes get overlooked and may be a point that persuades a parent to allow a child to participate, if they know that they're getting more benefit from a hobby than just the obvious enjoyment.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:04 am

My name is Alex and I am a gamer. geek

The main thing I find when talking about gaming is usually the reaction of "Is that that WoW?" or "Oh is it 40K or that games workshop thing?"
So people know about these aspects but only from what they will have seen on the high street.

I too have met several people, mostly when I was living in the block and had laid out my Guard Armd Inf company in all its glory for a routine check and repair, who have revealed that they got out of the hobby, though there reasons are usually they had no money/time/interest any more. No one has ever said because of the geek thing, those in the club care little for the comments of other people and just get on with their lives.

I snowboard which tends to take people by surprise rather then the gaming.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:25 am

Hi my name is Richie and im a wargamer!!

Used to be at the same place as H and Dave. I have never been ashamed/hid my hobby from anyone.

I actually said this as my ice breaker on my clm

My name is richie and im the defination of an sop geek. i like star wars, star trek - but not ds9 i do online gaming and i play warhammer.

I then sat down.

Its awesome to see the look on peoples faces when you rip your own hobby - it throws them off their insults!
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:27 pm

I've written the brief. Its an Introduction to 40k as I don't really do other wargames, it does briefly go over other stuff though. I'll have to upload it to my blog or something as I can't post attachments on here.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:01 pm

There are a lot of closet gamers in the forces. I spent most of Telic 13 painting Space marines at work and some of my fellow painters/modellers who fell out of the woodwork were quite unexpected (who would have thought that para PTIs have a creative side). Every unit seems to have at least a couple of gamers (even if its only D&D).
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:40 am

it is one of the reasons for this site. we can all get together and organise visits and tourneys and club challenges.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Sun May 20, 2012 8:10 am

Im Guy and Im a major geek

I have been open about my hobby from the start, since I joined up.
A few people were taken back that a lad joining the services would do such a hobby, and it actually came to a point where even the talk of 'Warhammer' was banned from my mess in sultan.
But there are a few curious people who do ask about it and learn more. Most the lads i meet have done it before as kids, but stopped doing it believing that its just for kids.
It still suprises me the amout of service personel that hide it till you pipe up about it.

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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue May 22, 2012 4:06 am

I seem to have had similar experience to those posted above. Convincing any there is more than space marines always seems a major obstacle.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:30 pm


First off, apologies if this is deemed threadromancy Question


I have similar issues with the whole geekdom thing: I'd rather sit across a table and throw dice with someone I've just met at a club, after talking about the time and effort involved with building, converting, painting their chosen army than I would logging onto Xbox live and being continually shot/knifed in the back in a game of COD by some 13 year old kid from Chicago who plays Call of Duty 24/7.

I paint FOW and 40K on nights at work and enjoy all the comments at shift handover about playing with my "toys". The look on someone’s face when I explain my £100 Forgeworld toy Stormblade contains cancer causing resin and the veritable workshop of tools, paints fillers etc I use increases the cost of my toy beyond that of their geeky Xbox for that one model...

Funnily, no one seems to have mentioned there are plenty of folk who will gladly play Dawn of War on their PC but wouldn't set foot in a GW store as it is "toys for kids".
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:31 am

I've never kept my wargaming a secret, I'm as open about it as I am about my videogaming and airsoft. In fact, I find that leaving a copy of White Dwarf on my desk tends to attract quite a few people who are either interested in giving it a try, or who are secretly wargamers themselves.

I get a bit of banter from some of the lads about it, but after 14 years in I'm more than capable of giving as good as I get.

I was a bit surprised by my SNCOs reaction come SJAR time (the wargaming club is not a proper secondary duty, it's just a hobby, etc...), but I know plenty of seniors that disagree and are even wargamers themselves. I'm sure I can make him see sense!

I do get a few mates saying they used to do things like 40k, but 'grew out of it'. It makes me a little mad that they think of it in that way, but I figure in most cases it's peer pressure or fear of what people will think of them.
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:32 am

Dude I run our wargames club and it's always on my MPAR / SJAR so you can have it on there but it's down to either of your reporting officers to put it in there
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PostSubject: Re: HOW MANY OF US HAVE ''COME OUT'' AS GAMERS   Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Oh don't worry, I'm going to make sure it's on there! One of the SNCOs involved in the club is a good friend of mine who's promised to speak to my line manager about how much work I've put into it. Two of the other SNCOs on my section were completely onside about it being a good secondary duty, it was just this one guy.

I'm not too concerned as I'm moving to a different section by the end of this month, so won't be a problem this reporting period!
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